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group study Relaxation Qigong and Sleeping Qigong

Group study openly invites people to learn and exchange thoughts together based on premises that are always explicitly pointed out, however loose they might be. Any fixed discussion outcomes aren't called for, but the intent is in personal growth and understanding. It's good to keep mindful and respectful of both what is and what isn't relevant for discussion though.

Pak_Satrio

Practitioner
Tutor
This is not the same style we are discussing. There are many kinds of sleeping practices in qigong, but this specific style is the one taught by John Dolic from Nan Yun.
My mistake, thanks for the clarification!

Hello there! Don't worry, this is an active topic. Discussions don't expire on this forum.

As Earl Grey alluded already, everybody would need to read the book you have in order to make a comparison or comment at all. The styles could be historically related, but it's probable that Nan Yun's tradition preserves the most complete training as it's specializes on this way of accomplishing the Dao.

The most important questions are: Is your heart at peace? How are you tending your heart? Is your general health good? If these are well addressed, then you have a good ground for starting with sleeping practices.

Generally speaking, sleeping practices are some of the most advanced practices in internal training, whether Daoist or Buddhist. Whatever you choose to practice, please take note that a book will only get you so far: You would eventually need to connect with a teacher and his yogic lineage in order to receive counsel over deepening spiritual experiences and to make your practice deeper.

Anyone with genuine interest could contact Sifu Dolic through email to ask relevant questions or to arrange a videochat counsel, so that you gain insight whether it still sounds an attractive option for your actual needs because the style is highly spiritual. There is much to discuss about this topic, but the link to Sifu John Dolic's article about (Nan Yun's) Shuigong in the first post is a good start for gaining some common idea why it could be so. Cultivating the heart is more important for the right type of sleep than people would realize, which is why Sifu Dolic would undoubtedly bring up the importance of practicing virtues and doing daily good deeds in addition to formal training.

Personally, I would recommend Flying Phoenix Qigong for most beginners interested about sleeping practices because it gives a lot of synergistic and experientially proven benefit to (Nam Yun's) Sleeping Qigong and helps with the opening of energetic heart. Some of the Flying Phoenix meditations are exceptionally good for promoting yogic sleep also. Please see here:


Some other types of training that Sifu Dolic offers might also be good for complementing the Sleeping Qigong which is an immobile style on its own.
To your questions, I'm the most stress free and at peace than I have been in the last few years and probably in the best health too. Thanks for the links! Will check out Flying Phoenix.

Basically I am a complete beginner and trying to do my research and see which is the best way for me to start. I do eventually want to find a teacher but currently I'm in no financial position to commit to anything long term and will be moving to the UK in a few months so would like to start properly when I'm settled with a new job etc. I don't want to learn for free but would like to start putting in the groundwork now to help me when start with a teacher. Would you recommend I start to learn Flying Phoenix from Sifu Terry's dvds in the meantime?

I'll send an email to Sifu Dolic to find out more about Dongfang Shuigong
 
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Roots of Virtue

At Your Service
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Basically I am a complete beginner and trying to do my research and see which is the best way for me to start. I do eventually want to find a teacher but currently I'm in no financial position to commit to anything long term and will be moving to the UK in a few months so would like to start properly when I'm settled with a new job etc. I don't want to learn for free but would like to start putting in the groundwork now to help me when start with a teacher.

This thread could give you further pointers:


Would you recommend I start to learn Flying Phoenix from Sifu Terry's dvds in the meantime?

Of course! We have him as an invited teacher here for a good reason.

I'll send an email to Sifu Dolic to find out more about Dongfang Shuigong

Great idea. It's good to chat with teachers and feel how well you are connecting with their teachings and teachings style.

Some teachers can be impolite and impatient when met even with reasonable questions, but Sifu Terry and Sifu Dolic are both very friendly and accessible people even if sometimes busy with schedules.

By the way, I sent email to Sifu Dolic this morning and asked if it was okay for me to post information about different Shuigong modules here. I except to have his blessing within few days.
 
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Earl Grey

Gonzo Daoist and Dharma Punk
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Would you recommend I start to learn Flying Phoenix from Sifu Terry's dvds in the meantime?

Yes.

I'll send an email to Sifu Dolic to find out more about Dongfang Shuigong

Excellent. When you have saved enough for the first level should you decided to take it, you'll find the FP DVDs will make the impact of your Shuigong much more noticeable. If one were purely seeking health and spiritual growth, I'd recommend even just the first level of Shuigong and the six volumes of FP should one want a simple practice, as you don't necessarily need level 2 or advanced FP practices beyond the DVD set since they're all quite complete for beginners and all levels.
 
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Pak_Satrio

Practitioner
Tutor
This thread could give you further pointers:

Excellent. When you have saved enough for the first level should you decided to take it, you'll find the FP DVDs will make the impact of your Shuigong much more noticeable. If one were purely seeking health and spiritual growth, I'd recommend even just the first level of Shuigong and the six volumes of FP should one want a simple practice, as you don't necessarily need level 2 or advanced FP practices beyond the DVD set since they're all quite complete for beginners and all levels.

Thank you both again for your help. There's a mountain of information online about qigong and it's hard to know where to even begin! So far I've done Dr Yang Jwing-Ming's embryonic breathing Udemy course based on his book, and Damo Mitchell's Anchoring the Breath and Sinking The Qi videos on youtube. Anyway I won't derail the thread anymore, looking forward to contribute my experience with sleeping qigong when I eventually get started on it!
 
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Roots of Virtue

At Your Service
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The following are my questions and Sifu Dolic's answers from a few years ago on the topic of Sleeping Qigong. I have done very minor edits.



Sleeping Qigong Questions & Answers with Sifu John Dolic​

What are the different comparative outcomes or benefits of the five basic level exercises?

As for the difference in the outcomes, they are serving as a foundation to each other but can be practiced independently as well.

The first main exercise, Mind and Body as One treats diseases, improves sleep and promotes health on many levels and so is the first assisting exercise the Little Bodily Practice (however that one is done during daytime and uses gentle stretching exercises while sitting in lotus position).

The second one is more like fine tuning and getting rid of residual imbalances of chi as well as preparing the grounds for the final two exercises. It also works on opening the heavenly eye, observing the auras and learning the meaning of each color, thickness, layers as well as treating diseases (both oneself's as well as other people's) or changing destiny by voluntarily changing "inauspicious" colors.

The third exercise (Five Dragons Curled Up), based on them all, effectively uses the sleeping time to practice Qigong. Not only that it is great for health but can lead to high levels of Qigong. And of course, for those interested, to explore the future.

The second assisting exercise (Big Bodily Practice), practiced during daytime, is the only one that is practiced while standing. It works on mediating between heart and kidneys or bringing the fire and water into balance and establishing very unique Microcosmic Orbit. It is much stronger than most others commonly seen, circulates between kidneys and heart only, does not go up to head and once established last whole life. It is also known as Dragon meets the Tiger and, once grasped, can profoundly change one's life. It can sort out all kinds of internal problems but then, after working on it for a while and being taken out of the body, it can be used to even affect the weather (among other things).

1. What are the topics of the remaining lessons of the basic level Sleeping Qigong?

2. Could you please give me brief descriptions of the advanced level Sleeping Qigong lessons?

1. The topics of the remaining lessons of the basic level Sleeping Qigong are the Heavenly Part that, among other things, explains the Four States of Consciousness, how to recognise them and, more importantly, how to be able to shift towards the reality or the True (Original) State. The Earthly Part, on the other hand, deals with the importance of the so-called 5 Ethics as well as teaches the power of Group Mind Focusing in healing with the stress on love and forgiveness.

2. The advanced level Sleeping Qigong also has three parts: Heavenly Part explains the 8 Senses, 5 Types of Dreams and the Relationship Between Dreams and Psychic Abilities; Human Part has two main exercises (The Way to Enlightenment Through Hearing and The Ways to Deal With Dreams) and two assisting exercises (Big Locking Dragon and Employing the 5 Animals and 7 Stars to Protect the Body While Astral Traveling); Earthly Part further explores the Healing Through Love and Forgiveness including the Remote Dream Healing and Mass Dream Healing.

Do the Sleeping Qigong's healing methods (like imagining auras auspicious and remote dream healing) tax the practitioner in any manner? According to my study external qi projection may drain one's energy, so I was wondering if this style had advantages when compared to more typical clinical energy projection methods.

Sleeping Qigong's healing methods do not tax the practitioner in any manner because this is not the case of projecting chi to directly influence the outcome but rather changing the cause (inner thoughts) in order to change the effects (outer world).
 
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Earl Grey

Gonzo Daoist and Dharma Punk
Moderator
My recent practice has been Relaxation qigong to test my focus, and often, I will fall asleep, wake up a few hours later, and then do the three main exercises for Shuigong.

In the months before, I had exclusively been doing Relaxation at night and then sleeping in the Five Dragons form, or napping in the Five Dragons form midday.

Dreams themselves feel more like messages rather than psychic junk whenever I get through a few Shuigong meditations. I vividly saw the major arcana card for Lust in the Thoth tarot deck by Crowley, the analogue to Strength in most tarot decks, during preparation for the first meditation of Body and Mind as One in Shuigong. In the second meditation Opening the Heavenly Eye, I felt my inner eye has actually grown a lot, though I find this is overlapping with some training I briefly did with @Neirong which helps with focus. It's always a joy to find overlapping skills across systems.

There is a very delicate and subtle qi that cultivates from Sleeping qigong, and this kind of stillness is stronger after years of practice compared to when I started, where Spontaneous qigong was more intense. The passive but focused practice of Shuigong is very appealing, especially as I seek to become smaller and subtler with practice.

I used to say Dolic's publicly offered classes could be a secret syllabus, and I consider Shuigong to be the most advanced, moreso than Spontaneous, if studied in sequence.
 
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