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group study Flying Phoenix 2023 Thread

Group study openly invites people to learn and exchange thoughts together based on premises that are always explicitly pointed out, however loose they might be. Any fixed discussion outcomes aren't called for, but the intent is in personal growth and understanding. It's good to keep mindful and respectful of both what is and what isn't relevant for discussion though.
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Earl Grey

Gonzo Daoist and Dharma Punk
Moderator
First two weeks of practice around Vol. 1 and 2 meds.

I'm noticing a lot of relaxation after my sessions and I heard a few times at home that I looked calmer than usual!
But on another side, I have some trouble falling asleep since I started practicing (not using waker upper at night time though) 😕

Funny thing also, almost never happens that people ask me for help, but last days, it happened several times in the street/supermarket/...


I have also a question: as I explained in my first post, I started qigong with Anthony Korahais and got some good results. Then, after learning a bit more about his former master (Wong Kiew Kit), I decided to put it aside after reading on Shaolin Wahnam forums a long thread about "overtraining" and deep cleansing provoked by their practice. It made me see that a lot of posts on Korahais' Facebook group was speaking about that as well... But I saw also that one of WKK's book is on recommended reading list of Sifu Dunn as "a notable system of chi kung".
So my question would be, is it a safe qigong practice?
I won't going back to it as I think doing anything having doubts is never beneficial in the end, but getting some lights on it would help close that chapter more easily and get it out of my mind.

Your sleep issues are likely related to channels opening more, which means circulation is better. You may want to do stillness to sink the energy. People asking for your help is generally because you seem more approachable with the literal energy that you give off now.

With regards to Wong Kiew Kit, I will ping @Roots of Virtue to chime in on this.

My understanding is that like all professionals, such as in the medical field for example, they can study the same foundation for medicine and the body, but their personal views can lead to divergence, such as some doctors pushing pharmaceuticals for extra funding but know it's harmful, others who simply follow what the scientific consensus is, and then those who get called quacks but understand the science, business, and politics affecting things. Terry Dunn endorsing readings of Wong likely is because his foundational knowledge is not wrong, though his conduct and conclusions after that are what makes it questionable.

In other words: a "quack" doctor knows what a "real" doctor knows on the basic level, but each of them makes different conclusions, whether it is about Covid, vaccines, multivitamins, sunscreen, acupuncture, or qi.
 
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Roots of Virtue

At Your Service
Staff member
Moderator
I have also a question: as I explained in my first post, I started qigong with Anthony Korahais and got some good results. Then, after learning a bit more about his former master (Wong Kiew Kit), I decided to put it aside after reading on Shaolin Wahnam forums a long thread about "overtraining" and deep cleansing provoked by their practice. It made me see that a lot of posts on Korahais' Facebook group was speaking about that as well...

The Flying Phoenix subforum is a wrong place to inquire about this topic because it has nothing to do with the teachings of Sifu Terry Dunn. I haven't seen any evidence that Sifu Terry would personally know any Shaolin Wahnam instructor or have any taste of what they practice, therefore I doubt he would be able to give intimately aware answers in any case.

Moreover, publicly commenting about other teachers and their skills risks breaking a taboo in traditional Chinese culture: "not losing one's face" nor wanting others to experience that. I'm sure Sifu Terry could give an example or two about these like he has also given in the past.

What you need to understand is that what applies to Shaolin Wahnam's training is according to their understanding and doctrine. According to my observation, there is no recorded history of traditional Chinese internal arts causing any type of "overtraining" symptoms like they seem to widely propose and exhibit on the Shaolin Wahnam circles, so the issue is peculiar to their own. Whether this a sign of merit or demerit is up to everyone's discernment.

For the record, if you train Flying Phoenix, then you will never have to worry about any issues about "overtraining": the FP energy is particularly smooth and always homeostatic for the body as Sifu Terry has so lucidly described. The FP energy never oversatures to any point of discomfort if you train according to the instructions (which surely are easy to follow).

As a personal note about "deep cleansing" in qigong practice, I think the most important issue is that some teachers may teach too little about the role of regulating emotions and opening the heart with altruistic love as the key ingredients for overcoming any sense of lingering discomfort brought up by the practice. Unresolved emotions such as anger or irritable blaming of others can feel persistently sickening unless their root causes are directly tackled through ethical personal conduct (i.e avoid all harm, especially in speech) and emotional hygiene (i.e. act kindly towards others).

See here for more information about emotions and their regulation:


But I saw also that one of WKK's book is on recommended reading list of Sifu Dunn as "a notable system of chi kung".

So? Sifu Wong unquestionably is well-publicized and has a widely tutored system of qigong.

Sifu Terry's list is not an endorsement of the styles presented, but they offer perspectives to see how others may approach qigong practice.

So my question would be, is it a safe qigong practice?

Based on the information, would you recommend your own children, relatives, or close friends to check them out? If yes, then how would you react to possible discovery if they developed the "overtraining" condition and proclaimed that it surely belongs to internal training?

I won't going back to it as I think doing anything having doubts is never beneficial in the end, but getting some lights on it would help close that chapter more easily and get it out of my mind.

A really important life lesson is to learn choose your own concerns and causes.

Accepting ignorance and the limitations of information we have available is one of these, as there is little of perfect information that both answers our questions without leaving anything unanswered and helps us to become more aware in order to become truly wiser in the future. Therefore, it's often more important to rely on one's gut sense and heart for intuitive understanding for what you want to do and to accomplish rather than make any further attempt of analysis based on deficient knowledge.

Accepting the limits of personal responsibility is another important lesson. Even if it turns out is something wrong with X, then what can you do to help about it? You can't be held liable for others' learning process either if they get involved in questionable associations because that is their free will.

If people's, or yourself, dovetailing into possibly inferior arts still bothers you, then I would suggest you search your heart first whether you have enough assurance of validity and correctness in what you personally practice in and out of formal meditation. If you find many unanswered questions, then you could study traditional Confucianism, Daoism, or Mahayana Buddhism and see how each propose to solve the problems of fundamental ignorance. Don't take these matters on blind faith nor accept shallow answers, but be sure to inquire and ask. For example, in any valid Mahayana Buddhist teaching you would eventually learn that praying for everyone's ignorance to be resolved is considered noble and an integral part of the doctrine.
 
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Zephyr

Student
Let me first apologize for misusing this subforum and then thank you both for still taking time to answer me on that unrelated question. I'll think twice about my future questions!

Based on the information, would you recommend your own children, relatives, or close friends to check them out? If yes, then how would you react to possible discovery if they developed the "overtraining" condition and proclaimed that it surely belongs to internal training?
Thanks for presenting it that way @Roots of Virtue , it cleared up my thoughts around it!

I'll put back on track stillness practice from Rudi's neigong as already adviced by @Earl Grey and just continue my practice then.
 
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Rongong

Student
Hello again!

I have not overcome my throat issue, but have found that I can do one breath sequence a day, without too much trouble. I’m trying to get as much bang for the buck from one sequence, which means I’m currently focusing on bending the bows, as the movement means I can go for a bit longer, before soreness in the feet (and thighs) sets in. I can go for just north of 30 minutes currently, while I can only do MGM for 10-15 minutes.

Anyway - I’m wondering if it’s okay for the exhale to be ‘chopped‘, sort of like a calmer version of how women giving birth are taught to exhale. This helps me exhale the right percentage, but I‘m know doubting whether it needs to be one continuous stream instead?
 
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Pak_Satrio

ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ
Practitioner
Hello again!

I have not overcome my throat issue, but have found that I can do one breath sequence a day, without too much trouble. I’m trying to get as much bang for the buck from one sequence, which means I’m currently focusing on bending the bows, as the movement means I can go for a bit longer, before soreness in the feet (and thighs) sets in. I can go for just north of 30 minutes currently, while I can only do MGM for 10-15 minutes.
This timing is quite amazing! Don’t push yourself too hard if it’s painful, do a bit shorter but relaxed.

Anyway - I’m wondering if it’s okay for the exhale to be ‘chopped‘, sort of like a calmer version of how women giving birth are taught to exhale. This helps me exhale the right percentage, but I‘m know doubting whether I needs to be one continuous stream instead?
Interesting question, I assume it should only be done as a continuous stream but let’s see what Sifu Terry has to say about it.
 
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Rongong

Student
This timing is quite amazing! Don’t push yourself too hard if it’s painful, do a bit shorter but relaxed.
Thank you for the encouragement. I’m currently switching between the first four exercises on each day to spread the load and it’s less boring. I’m doing 30 minutes for MGM and Monk holding various objects (peach and a pearl). 40 minutes for BTB.
Interesting question, I assume it should only be done as a continuous stream but let’s see what Sifu Terry has to say about it.
Yeah, I’m training the normal counting on my concluding three breaths and will probably switch to that, if I don’t hear anything else. It’s just easier, right now at least, to do the exhale segmented because I’ve gauged how long each ’push’ or ‘pocket of exhale’ needs to be for my lungs to emptied from 10 of them.
 
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Zen-Bear

Sifu Terry Dunn
Teacher
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL ALCHEMICAL GARDENERS AND FLYING PHOENIX QIGONG PRACTITIONERS!!

TO ALL FLYING PHOENIX QIGONG PRACTITIONERS:

This is ridiculous 2 hours' advanced notice--for I just decided to make this Qigong event / workshop available on Zoom:

TODAY, January 13, I am giving two 2-hour FP Qigong workshops from 11am to 1pm EST and then 3 to 5pm:

Session A at 11 am to 1pm will be a one-hour introduction to Taoist Elixir Method (Tao Tan Pai) Basic 31 Meditations Basic Meditations followed by one-hour of Flying Phoenix Qigong, that will allow you experience the dramatic catalyzing effect of TTP-31 on FP Qigong.

Session B at 3pm to 5pm EST will be instruction and refinement in Flying Phoenix Qigong's basic and standing meditations, concentrating on the material in Volumes 1, 2, and 3, and if there is time, Volume 4 (the capstone exercise Long Form).

TUITION

$75 for 1 session, $140 for both sessions (in person attendance)​


ZOOM PARTICIPATION: $40 per 2-hour session or $65 for both sessions • Please send tuition via Paypal (to zenbearinc@gmail.com ) or via Zelle (to terencepdunn@gmail.com)

[Zoom log-on links will be emailed to registrants.]


Details and registration information are on my Newsletter announcement
https://terencedunn.substack.com/p/flying-phoenix-qigong-workshops-schedule

--along with details of my 3-day (14-hour) immerse FP Qigong workshop on February 9, 10, and 11 --to bring in the lunar new year, the Year of the Dragon:

WORKSHOP SCHEDULE
The 3-day immersive workshop, February 9 to 11th, consists of 7 two-hour sessions with 2 sessions on Friday, 3 on Saturday, and 2 on Sunday at these times:

Friday: 3pm - 5pm; 7:30pm - 9:30pm EST
Saturday: 10am - noon; 2:30pm - 4:30pm; 7:30pm - 9:30pm EST
Sunday: 10am - noon; 2:30pm - 4:30pm EST

TUITION

$440 early registration till January 27 $495 on day of workshop

• ZOOM PARTICIPATION: $40 per 2-hour session or $250 for all 7 sessions

NOTE: All questions by Zoom participants will be thoroughly answered at the end of each session. [Zoom log-on links will be emailed to registrants the day before workshop begins.]

• Please send tuition via Paypal (to zenbearinc@gmail.com) or via Zelle (to terencepdunn@gmail.com ) •


I hope to see you today on Zoom! Again, my apologies for this VERY last minute notice about today's events!!!

Sifu Terry Dunn


http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html
Zoom classes: terencedunn.substack.com
 
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Rongong

Student
If you find the time zen-bear/Sifu Terry, I’d love to hear your thoughts on my post above. I’ll figure it out eventually by comparing both exhales (normal/pocket exhale), but it would be interesting to hear nontheless.
 
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